Sponsorship, Critical Thinking, and Building Your Own Platform with Aneka Jiwaji

Welcome to Studying Law Around the World. I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode, I talk with lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the profession looks like in real life. We talk about the hard parts, the surprises, and the decisions that shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just curious about how law works around the world, this podcast is for you. Today I have the opportunity to welcome again Anika Jiwaji. Thank you so much for making the time to come back to the podcast and to share with us a little more about your career. Annika is a commercial and securities litigator with a passion for improving the profession. She has an LLM in securities law. She's the co-founder and counsel at Diwaji Law, and she has an incredible LinkedIn presence. So very, very excited to be chatting with her today, Annika. Thanks for inviting me again, Claudio. I'm very excited to chat with you some more. And to start us off, you know, for those who might have not heard our first episode together, would you mind just doing a quick Run through your career for us. Okay. So I'm Anika. I've been practicing for 10 years this year. So I was called to the bar in September of 2016. I've only ever been a litigator. I started at a specialty lines insurance national platform and I summered there, I artikled there. I was there as an associate after I got called. And then I transitioned to an Apple service regional firm. I still did a lot of to a lot of its insurance work. I had the ability to take on some more commercial litigation work when I was there, and I started feeling like I was gravitating towards that kind of work. I had a couple of like little files there that were sort of quasi-criminal, like dealing with like bylaw infractions for people who were in starting to do like cannabis. Cannabis was like a big thing at the time, and there was some sort of intersections between criminal law and regulatory law and things like that for some of like the commercial leasing clients while I worked there. I had my my one and only appearance in criminal court for one of those. And I just, every time I went into the courtroom, I felt just so excited and elated. And I wasn't getting as much court experience on insurance files. So I started gravitating like more towards the files that I could do some more advocacy work on. And that's when I decided to sort of double down on doing commercial litigation. I joined an international firm. I then joined the BC Securities Commission. I got a master's and securities law, which led me to joining a leading commercial lit boutique. And our boutique is all women, which is pretty exciting. So we're doing some, some sort of specialties that we don't really see a lot of our faces in, things like IP, tech, securities, commercial litigation. We'd like to start doing more appellate work. I did some, I had quite a few appearances in court of appeal at my last gig doing some more like applications work, but I'd like to do some more bigger sort of appeal hearings. I really love like the intellectual side of things. So like anything that involves like reading and writing a lot of stuff, I really enjoy. And I was just sort of laughing. I've had to get like thicker and thicker glasses as all of the years have gone, have gone. But yeah, I really just really enjoy the work and that's me. I'm running this firm with my partner who is also my sister. We come from sort of like a law family. Like our dad was a lawyer. My sister My husband's a lawyer. My dad has, you know, 9 siblings, many of which are lawyers. So yeah, so that's me. That's me kind of in a nutshell. Very exciting. Thank you so much. I appreciate you telling us these details. And in our last episode, we talked a lot about, you know, visibility, brand. We talked about, you know, how some people mentioned to you that being so active on LinkedIn was career suicide. And then you mentioned about how much, you know, freedom it gave to you and how much agency gave it. so that you could really take control over your career. And you just mentioned that your law firm is a female-only law firm. So I wanted to hear a little bit about, you know, why there's a focus at your firm on excellence for women lawyers. Yeah. So, I mean, this all sort of like evolved over the years. I always felt like, and I'm not saying that women can't thrive within the existing system. I certainly know women who, you know, are doing really well within the existing system. That being said, having, you know, done this for 10 years in this market, I really didn't feel like there was a space where women could just be unapologetically excellent. Friends of mine who are like heavy hitters, who I think, you know, are just like amazing. Like when we have these discussions, they're still sort of tiptoeing around things that we have normalized in this industry, like egos. I've got a friend of mine from law school who owns her own Sherman Inc. And she was talking about how legal assistants, they actually have like training when they go legal assistant school about working in high-pressure environments where like people will yell at them. And like, that's normalized as like, this will happen to you because it's a high-stress career. I just don't buy into any of that ethos. Like, I think we do really like high-level, really quality work here. And I think that that's not mutually exclusive with like being a good person. And I, I don't prescribe to work environments where things like that are normalized. And I feel like those sort of egos, misogyny, yelling, that type of behavior disproportionately affects women and in particular racialized women. And it creates an environment where women are not able to thrive in their excellence. So I really just was at a point where I think you see a lot of like women-led firms and people sort of have this like, oh, it's like lifestyle. They want to go home and like get their kids at 3 o'clock. And I just think that's such a bad way of looking at it. Like women are amazing. Women can be just as excellent and we have so much bandwidth to do all of the things. And I wanted to create an environment where we're unapologetically like, yeah, you know what? We're really good commercial litigators. We're really good at IP. We're really good at tax. And we're really good at all of the other things that come with being a woman, you know, whether you choose to have kids or not. Like, look, I'm a good mom, right? Like, and I feel like I can say that while saying that's not, you know, exclusive of— I don't have to pick whether I do this or I do that. I don't want women to have to be in an environment where we feel like we have to temper our full selves. And we can just be excellent at all of those things and just really enjoy the practice of law. That's amazing. I really appreciate you bringing that because I think it really sets the tone for the conversation we're having today. You started your own firm, you just mentioned, you know, building from that experience across major firms, across regulatory environments as well. So if we can start kind of right off the bat, for lawyers who are thinking, you know, that they might be in an environment that is not helping them to fulfill their fullest of their abilities, they maybe want to, you know, find somewhere else, or maybe they want to start their own firm. Are there a few, you know, practical or strategic strategic advices that maybe you even followed when you decided, you know, now it's time to go and start my own thing? I want to be clear, like, in one regard. I have had the opportunity to work with so many wonderful people over these 10 years. Every place that I have worked at, I've got, you know, relationships with people there that I, you know, still go for lunch with, and we still have those close relationships. So, I'm certainly not saying that, you know, like, everywhere has been, you know, this terrible workplace or anything like that. That's why I built this But in, in terms of like the trajectory of like, what was my thought process when I was trying to figure out like, you know, how do I get to where I want to, want to be? If you had told me this like 5 years ago, I always, I had a lot of people when I was a, you know, younger lawyer or law school who would say to me like, Annika, you know, you should start your own firm. Like you have the right personality and kind of like gumption to do it. And I was sort of like, I don't know, like that kind of sounds like a lot of work. I just kind of want, you know, to be able to focus on the substantive work and like, you know, not, not do all the other stuff, but As time went on, I found myself sort of like always falling into sort of like a leadership position. I feel like women sometimes in these environments, like we're not allowed to say I am just naturally a leader. So when I was thinking about like, okay, like how do I get myself where I want to be? And then that eventually, you know, led to launching my own firm. I really focused on like relationships and, and really leaning into like my leadership sort of qualities in all of those spaces. So whether that be with you know, various organizations. Like I was very involved in the Canadian Bar Association as a younger lawyer. I was on their Young Lawyers Executive for, you know, many, many years. I made some wonderful connections through that. I was really intentional about making great organic connections with people, like regardless of, you know, if I thought that it might serve me like later in my career, I didn't approach relationships with that thought process. I was always like, I just want to get to know this person, like I was just really trying to get to know a lot of people, really leaning into what I thought I was good at, which was like that leadership sort of quality and really being consistent in doing really good work. Because I felt like if I could build all of those things together, then like the world was sort of my oyster. I sort of have my gripes with the, with the concept of reputation, but I sort of call it more like a focus on character. Once people know your character and they know the kind of person that you are, you can really do whatever you wanna do with your career because this Law is in so many ways a relationship and quality of work business. Like your credibility is built, especially in litigation, by showing up and showing up consistently and doing really good work consistently. So I was really focused on that and I was really focused on making really good relationships and for people to know my character so that when, if and when I wanted to go out and do my own thing, I had that credibility behind me. And I think that that's really paid off. I have such a big like social media presence. It would be very easy to sort of be like, you know, Attica's a little, a little nutty, you know, I'm not the conventional sort of lawyer, but because I've built that sort of character and credibility in the market for 10 years, like that's gone a long way. So, you know, with regards to your question about like, if someone's thinking, you know, maybe I'm not in the right work environment, like don't try not to focus so much about that particular work environment. I know that's so, that's so easy to say, like when you're not in a good spot, but really focus on like the great connections you have outside of that work environment, get involved with other organizations. You know, I've met so many wonderful people in When I've been in like, you know, not maybe the best work situation, I've really leaned into my connections outside of that workplace. And I don't want to use the word networking because I don't consider it networking. Like, these are real relationships, like have really great relationships with other like-minded people. And those are both women and men. I've now been able to put myself in a position where I'm able to do the things that really feel aligned with my, you know, my career. It's so easy to get insular and just think about what's happening at your firm or your group or, you know, all of things that might not be going, you know, swimmingly for you, but there's, there's so many wonderful people outside of that, you know, and if you kind of focus your energy on making those, those sort of connections and leaning into those organizations, I think that can be really useful as like a long-term sort of strategy. And to fulfill and to have a fulfilling career and a full life, right? Which is what all of us want. Many of your cases have gone and sat at that interesting intersection litigation, regulation, reputation management, all of that together. And over a span of 10 years, you've seen quite a bit of, you know, everything. And you just mentioned a little bit about how you saw different files and were specialized in different areas throughout. I'm curious, you know, how do you help your clients navigate not just the legal issues then, but also the business, the personal pressure that come with this kind of dispute? Do you feel like your work also ends up, you know, intertwining with these other areas and you have that relationship with many clients? Yeah. I mean, I think like a lot of my clients, usually professionals, usually business people, I understand their world, right? I have another business that I ran with my sisters. I know the pain points of that other business. I know what that looks like. So I really, I'm always thinking about like being more of like an advisor than just their lawyer, like understanding their business, understanding their pain points. I'm very big picture and I try not to get caught up in like the granular, because I think that sometimes for like long litigation matters, it's really hard to see like what the goal is and the endpoint is. And of course you have to be able to pivot. There's never like a perfect plan, but I really try and see it from like a big picture perspective. And I think like what's really valuable for my clients is something interesting, which is when I was going through all of these kind of career iterations, all of them, you know, within the litigation space, a lot of people sort of said to me like, You know, you should only sort of pick one thing and like do that. So like either you do insurance and you just do that, or you just do regulatory work, or you just do appellate work or commercial work. And I've always taken the tact of like being like a true barrister. Like my mentality has been, if it's the law, like I can read it, I can pick it up, I can understand it. And so I, I'm, I'm in a good position to be able to advise clients having done so many different things. Like, I'll give you an example where clients will come to me on, on, you know, business issues, but now all of a sudden they have an insurance coverage issue. Like, I've done insurance coverage at a high level at a very good firm that did that work. So I know how to do that and I can bring that expertise. I have clients who have, you know, regulatory issues, but they've got defamation issues because their regulatory issues have led to defamation issues, right? I've, I've done defamation law. I've done it at a high level. It's given me such a of experience to bring to files. Am I an expert in absolutely everything? Absolutely not. But if I'm not, I know the right person to call, which is where the connection piece comes, comes in, right? Like there's a number of files where I have either been brought in as a specialist, family lawyer needed someone with BC Securities Commission and corporate expertise. And similarly, I have files that are shareholders files and I don't understand the employment aspects Maybe, but I know the right person to bring on the file as an employment lawyer. Where I'm out of my depth, I know the right person to bring in and I have really strong relationships with other lawyers in town such that like they'll always do me kind of a solid, which is great because I've shown up for them, right? I've shown up for them when they need me. And that's what I'm talking about. Like, I think character and the way that you treat people like really, really counts. That's the value I really bring to clients and sort of bringing those like intersectional transactional sort of pieces of various things that I've done. I think that that's kind of unique. It's kind of unique. I think some people have sort of stayed in the same area of litigation their entire careers. And because I did a big career pivot, right? Like, that's not typical for most litigators. There's not a lot of people who start in, you know, specialty lines, insurance defense work, and, you know, next thing you know, they're working at the BC Securities Commission and doing some securities law. It was a big pivot for me at the time, but I think all of the work that I did before that and all the experience that I did before that. I had the benefit of working at some firms, some really good litigators, even in the insurance space. And, you know, I think sometimes people poo-poo insurance. I learned a lot and there was some really great lawyers there and great lawyers when I was at the regional firm. But I did decide to double down and go to an international firm and join the big leagues in some ways. I think a really good foundation. So yeah, I think that's what I, what I bring to these files and hopefully that's, you know, a value add for clients. Sam. Amazing. And as I was learning a little bit more about your profile as well, I learned that you've been involved in a little bit of precedent-setting litigation as well in BC. And I'm curious a little bit about, you know, those cases and curious also, you know, the approach when you, when you're working in that kind of shit and that kind of case that could really, you know, shape the law, if there is much of a different approach than a regular file. So I'm laughing just because like, Yes, it's precedent-setting litigation, but I just have this little joke now that like, you know, like commercial liens has become my entire personality because I have, I had this one file that, you know, came to me on a referral from a girlfriend right before the— it was right after the new Commercial Liens Act in British Columbia had hit. So it ended up being like the first ever petition trying to, and I think it's the only reported decision right now under that act. No one had, you know, used the sections. It was, and, and I was the first person to Do that kind of a petition to the court, having a lien discharged. That ended up becoming a guidance point for other lawyers who were gonna do what I did, guide strategy and, and tell people, this is how I did it. I learned so much about that act, you know, in, in such a short period of time. But to your question, Bri, like, does it change my approach? No. My approach is every file does it, like, it doesn't matter like what I'm working on. If you want someone who's gonna give you just a cursory look at something and try and get something out the door, like I'm, I'm not your I'm not your girl. Like I need time to sit with a file and like I need to really understand it. I need to read all the law and make sure that I'm really in a position to guide like a bigger litigation strategy. Like if you have, you know, a complex sort of thing that you want guidance on, that's not to say that I won't take on a, you know, a smaller file. It's just that like, if there, if there's this sort of feeling of like, let's just get a letter out the door or something, every file has a plan. If it's, you know, a precedent-setting file or a regular file, like every file should should be the same level of dedication and commitment as, as, as any other file on your desk. Certainly we're not saving lives. And I think, you know, some people need to just like relax a little bit on the, I need your response by, you know, Friday at 4:00 PM, or I'm, you know, the, the world's going to end. But at the same time, like people's lives are in our hands. Sometimes I'll have clients that come to me and say like, you know, like we have no idea what to do on this. And I'm like, oh my God, it's so obvious. Like we're going to do X, Y, and Z. And it's like, they're like, oh my God. Great. Like, let's do that. But we forget actually the level of expertise and experience that we bring to these matters. And these people are really like relying on us. But yeah, I think you bring the same level of tenacity and commitment to every matter. And that's what makes like a good litigator. This isn't just a job, right? Like, we're like, people are really relying on us in the same way as you would like your doctor to get it right. Talking about a few of the other areas of expertise you've built, In securities regulation, whistleblower matters, and governance issues, those are all evolving and changing. You just mentioned, you know, new legislation regarding leans in that sense. So what trends are you maybe paying the closest attention to right now? Where do you think litigation in these areas might be heading over in the next few years? Everyone who knows me knows that all I'm talking about these days is whistleblower litigation. I find whistleblower litigation is Fascinating, right? It's really moving and shaking. So whistleblower litigation has always been a big thing in the States. They've always had whistleblower programs for various, you know, institutional bodies. If you whistleblow, there's been awards that they will give you. I've been following that space for a while, and reason being is when I worked at the BC Securities Commission, one of my friends actually left the enforcement group to go and work as whistleblower counsel, and she developed the Whistleblower program. So I keep in touch with like basically everyone at the BC Securities Commission. I remember that sort of being a kind of a new thing, and the Ontario Securities Commission had recently put in whistleblowers legislation. We're now seeing claims pursuant to whistleblowers legislation. I have a case which I'm not going to talk about, you know, in detail, but it's basically like a regulatory reprisal. Like someone reported something, you know, we say in good faith to a regulator and ended up in a lawsuit. sued about it. So, you know, what does that look like? And there's actually ability under the statutes to bring a claim for like an unfair regulatory reprisal. There's so much protection under the whistleblower legislation. So that's an area that I'm, I'm following very closely in the security space. We've— it was a recent decision, which was a big whistleblower's damages award, which I think any securities litigator is— it was watching like how that went down. I think that's definitely a trend that I'm watching. I was reading the other day, each Each province has its own securities regulator, but there's an overriding body called the CSA, and that they, everyone sort of mirrors their legislation and their policies based on the overriding body. So I was reading the other day that there's going to be some changes coming to some of the initial instruments and some of the, the direction, which I think will be very, you know, interesting and new. Okay, where are we going with this? What are the changes that are coming? Who's going to implement them? Generally, all of the provinces do implement the changes that the CSA, you know, because everybody goes to the CSA. CSA committee and they all like decide that they're going to do it. I'm following that space, you know, quite closely right now. I think that securities regulators— I'm retained right now, a couple BC Securities Commission defenses, so I'm defending, you know, people who are involved in investigations. So I, I, I'm watching that a little bit more. Like, we see more of that in the States, but I think, you know, as, as the Canadian market evolves and becomes more sophisticated, we're going to see more of that, uh, here as as well. So yeah, that's kind of what I'm watching in the securities litigation space. I want to just be a little bit careful about that, just in the sense of like, people have— people keep saying to me like, oh, like, who should I send this to for commercial litigation? And I'm like, I am a commercial litigator. Like, oh, I thought you only did securities work. And I'm like, no. Like, so I'm vague in that way of like, I find securities litigation, you know, like, like very, very— what's the word— fascinating. But I'm not sure if there's any like trends in commercial litigation necessarily that I'm following. But I find the, I like securities outside of like, you know, you're bringing a case for someone on a fraud. Maybe they've invested in something and it turned out to be a fraud. A lot of the securities work that I do ends up before tribunals, right? So it's more tribunal work. And I really enjoy being in court. I'm just getting more senior and my files are becoming more and more complicated. Like everything seems to have more and more moving pieces. I don't panic every time I get a new file, but like, what am I going to do on this? I'm learning everything new for the first time. So that's been kind of fun. My favorite thing, Claudio. And like, you're gonna laugh. When you walk to chambers, everyone has their little bag and you always know who's going, right? So everyone's got their bag and you see it's sort of like all of the ants all going to the same destination, which is the courthouse. And I, and I, there's just such a sense of pride and joy whenever I have my bag and I'm heading to that same destination where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna see all the people that I know. We're all gonna be there trying to like do something for a client, hopefully. You know, we're like trying to fight the good fight in so many ways. I love that. Like I'm old school like that. I love the road. People are on my case right now because I was like kind of happy that chambers went to in person. And like, I, I take everybody's point. Like there's lots of like procedural stuff that can be done, you know, in the comfort of your office. And do we need everybody to show up to chambers for, you know, a subservice application? Like maybe not. But then at the same time, I think, you know, I remember being really junior and someone sending me to go do these little applications and at the time they didn't seemed like little applications, right? You would like prepare your thing and like go in and subservice. I'm going to get this order today. And that's how you gain confidence, right? Like if you're just at your desk on an MS Teams doing it, like, I get it. I get it as a more senior lawyer now. I'm like, like, do it. Like someone has to trot up there to do subservice. Like that's annoying. And people will say, you know, it's an access to justice issue. The collegiality of the bar and like the relationships we have with everybody. I love that feeling of, of of going there and seeing everyone. And I think for young lawyers, it's really important to have time on your feet, and the sitting at your desk is not time on your feet. But yeah, I just love that. So yeah, is there a trend in commercial litigation I'm following? No, but I love this profession and I love being a part of it. It's such a privilege. I really do feel that way. You've received some recognition for both your advocacy and your mentorship as well. After all that we spoke today and your experiences, I want to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on What good leadership or good mentorship actually look like in litigation. You just mentioned that young lawyers need to be, you know, spending time on their feet. So especially for young lawyers trying to find confidence in different environments, are there a few, you know, pieces of wisdom you can share with us today? Find a sponsor. Mentorship is great. Mentorship is wonderful. Like, my focus has always been mentoring women because I think that men get a lot of mentorship in this profession that women don't get. That's not to say that I don't And if someone came to me and they wanted mentorship, we help them. But when I'm, when I'm like looking at, okay, like who needs my help? Who needs my time? It's generally women. What I have found is the young women that I have mentored, they don't need my help substantively with law stuff as much as they need like a sponsor. They need somebody who sees their potential and will like lift them up with them. They'll say their, their name in rooms that they're not in and say, you know, this person's really good. This person's really great. Why don't you make this submission? Why don't you do a piece of this discovery? Like men just get so many more of those opportunities than women do in this profession. So I say like the more that you can find yourself a sponsor and the sponsor might not be who you think, who you think your sponsor should be. I think some people are like, well, I want, you know, the head of the group to be my sponsor, but like, we don't have anything in common. My sponsors have all been women. Like I can think of like a woman at almost every firm. Annika, like she's got it. She's got it. And that person has vouched for me and that has led to other opportunities, which have led to other opportunities. Like, I truly would not be here without those people. So I think when you're a young lawyer and you're thinking about like mentorship, to me, it's— mentorship is maybe the wrong word. It's more sponsorship. I know the award you're talking about. I was incredibly, incredibly touched to be nominated for that award. I'll tell you like how that went down. A number of associates at my former firm had written letters to the Vancouver Bar Association nominating me for this mentorship award. Mentorship Award. I have all the letters. I saved all the letters. I was so truly touched by everything that they said. There was some letters from people outside of the firm, other people that I had mentored, but I didn't— I don't know if I necessarily saw it as mentorship. I felt like I was sponsoring, you know, like I see some potential here that maybe other people have not tapped into on this person. So I'm going to put them on my file. I'm going to teach them everything that I know and like, you know, like watch them fly. And, and, you know, some of those letters were from men, which people are like, oh, Attica, you're all about women. And I'm like, I, you know, I had, I had, I had men writing me these mentorship and sponsorship letters too, because, you know, if, if, if, if we have that kind of like relationship, like I remember there was one young lawyer, the same fellow I talked about who was on that commercial liens decision with me, you know, he approached me. He said like, I've heard you're really great to work with. Like, I'd love to be on a file with you. And I was like, let's do it. Right. I've just had this thing come through the door. Like, let's do it. And, you know, we had such a wonderful time like working together. So yeah, I think think like find your sponsors, find your people. I remember when I was at like the regional firm that I was at before I went to an international firm, like my sponsor was someone who was like 4 or 5 years my senior. Like she's still one of my like very good friends, but she already had credibility at that firm and, you know, she took an interest in me and my work and she made sure that, you know, I was taken care of. I really worry about mentorship in this profession. One of my biggest concerns, and I think AI is great, I think it's got some really great uses, like we use a lot of AI in our I'm hearing a lot of the like, well, I don't really need a junior because like AI can do a lot of the stuff that a junior can do and it's like cheaper. And for me, that's like a really thing to hear because we have like a responsibility, I feel, to bring up the next generation of lawyers and we cannot teach— you can't teach critical thinking. Like critical thinking has to start from a young sort of lawyering age and you can't outsource critical thinking to AI. So if you know how to critically think, that AI can assist you in, you know, executing executing on various projects or helping you draft a letter, but we have an obligation to mentor and to sponsor those young lawyers and we can't just like say, oh, well, AI could do it. So now you're going to have a whole, you know, group of lawyers who don't know how to do anything because we delegated everything to AI. And that's just, that's not going to be great for this profession. So I, you know, again, we use a lot of AI in this practice. My sister has like 3 articles in like the Globe and Mail of her as like an AI expert because my sister's a tech and IP lawyer. So we have doubled down on tech in this practice. We use a lot of various different softwares and technologies, but we need to be, I think as a profession, we need to be even more stringent about mentorship right now in the current sort of climate that we're in. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for making the time to come on the show and to share a little bit more about your story, your practice, and your thoughts. Especially appreciate all your thoughts on how sponsorship can really change a lawyer's life. I find that fascinating how, you know, 2 lawyers can be at the same firm and can have completely, you know, different experiences. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for having me, Claudio. It's always such a pleasure to get to sit down with you. I think your podcast is awesome. Claudio won't toot his own horn, but he's getting, he's getting called to the bar. So I would say that on this podcast, I'm really proud of you. I think that's really exciting. Kudos to you for sticking with it. And I'm sure you've met, you know, so many cool people doing the podcast. I hope to count myself, you know, amongst those cool people that you've met. I can't wait to hear other episodes from other people. Thank you so much. And thank you all for tuning into today's episode. We'll see you on the next one.